Jonas Staal gave a presentation of his work. He submitted that art in general doesn’t try to become influential in comparison with politics and the media. His art projects can be seen as reactions on this phenomenon. He’s convinced that art can affect visions on life and should also strive for it.

In 2005 Jonas Staal made the ‘Geert Wilders werken’ (Geert wilders is a populist right-wing politician) , they are the first in a serial of memorial-pieces. Jonas Staal says; ‘the rise of the public memorials over the last years represents a combination of mourning and admiration. The deceased becomes a hero, a martyr. The rise indicates a lack of rituals that are contributing to solidarity.’ Jonas Staal used ‘Geert wilders’ as an icon for his first public memorial piece. Geert Wilders symbolizes a lost of distinction between the politician and the message he or she represents. ‘It seems that the entertainment quality of politics increased since the rise of Pim Fortuin.  You can speak about a personification of the politics.’

The third memorial piece ‘Iconen 2002-2006’ was forbidden by the coordinator of the security firm. In the original state, a lot of different pictures of politicians and royal family members were presented in a variety of photo frames.  The coordinator of the security firm was afraid this piece could cause disturbance among young immigrants and forced Jonas Staal to make either some chances or remove the piece. Staal asked the security what needed to be changed and they told him that all icons needed to be removed. As a response to this obligation he painted all images black. As a result the viewer saw his or her own reflection in the glass of the photo frames, as if the viewer became the subject of the memorial.

The ‘Geert Wilders werken’ got recently a continuation in a lawsuit. Staal reflects on this lawsuit as part of the art project. An art project is just fully completed if there’s also a reflective situation created besides the visual outcome. Within the lawsuit the relation between art and politics was canalized.

Staal’s favourite project is quite unknown and is called ‘Dode Vogels’ (Death Birds). He realised this public intervention when the bird flu was actual and made several compositions of death migratory birds in Rotterdam. The police enclosed the particular territories with tape and they took the birds to a lab for research. This response emphasized the intervention and gave it more weight.

Another serial project is the ‘Autobom I. II en III’ (Carbomb I, II and III) In ‘Autobom I and II’ Jonas Staal made models of carbombs after photographs he found in the media. He wanted to confront people with the distance between daily life experiences in public space and the images spread by the media. As Staal says: ‘we’re experiencing war because we’re confronted with it, through the media, on a daily base and we’re making up opinions about it, but we’re not directly involved. It’s visible but not tangible.’ ‘Autobom I and II’ were placed on the streets in Rotterdam. The carbombs were placed in a different context. The accidental passengers were physically confronted with an image they only knew before through the media.

‘Autobom III’ (Carbomb III) was a presentation of thee carbomb wrecks from Baghdad, Iraq. Some Iraqi students wanted to testify to show the daily reality they’re confronted with by showing these wrecks. According to Jonas Staal it was easier for the public to empathize with the artificial bombwrecks than with the real ones. ‘Autobom III’ was presented within an artcontext and this created a bigger distance between the artwork and the viewers in comparison to the bombwrecks on the street. The nasty aspect of presenting the real carbomb wrecks as art, is acknowledging the pleasure of experiencing the sensational impact and the esthetical quality of these images. Staal says that we shouldn’t judge ourselves because of it, but we should acknowledge this pleasure.  ‘The war doesn’t become more understandable by presenting the wrecks and this fact causes a fundamental unequality. We can look at the wrecks, feel empathy with the victims and walk further...’

Abbas: ‘Do you create the images because the public wants to see them or are you fascinated by these images yourself?’

Jonas Staal: ‘I think integrity and opportunism are two sites of the same spectrum. Is art desperately searching for the right to exist? Yes. Is art honest and curious? Yes. Is an artist autonomous and able to create an individual visual vocabulary, or is the artist a victim of its time and depending on the needs of the public? Probably it’s a combination of both positions.’

Mathijs Lieshout: ‘Are you not just very font of publicity?’

Jonas Staal: ‘My research is focussed on populism. To penetrate this movement I use strategies that are being used by populists in order to make these strategies more transparent. The images I create are meant to be hollow because I try to unmask the populist symbols.’

After Jonas Staal’s presentation we interviewed Gryt Wielinga about the activities of the ‘Monitor centre’. The ‘Monitor centre’ is an information centre for the emergency shelters for asylum seekers and is part of ‘Vluchtelingenwerk Friesland’ (an organisation for refugees in Friesland). Minister Verdonk of migration introduced the '28 days-regulation.' ‘When a procedure for an asylum is rejected, the government is not obligated to offer a place to stay after 28 days, so the asylum seeker will be put outside the asylum seekers centre. As a result of this regulation a lot of emergency shelters opened their doors to offer these people a place to stay’, according to Gryt Wielinga.

Wielinga tells us that the actual main concerns of the ‘Monitor centre’ are the newcomers (the ones who asked for asylum after 1st of April 2001) whose procedures probably will be rejected. They need to be prepared for their return. There are some regulations that are giving these former asylum seekers a certain amount of money to survive the first period after arrival in the native country.

For the asylum seekers who will get the ‘Generaal pardon’, the Monitor centre coordinates a buddy project. Immigrants in the possession of a residence permit are linked to Frisian inhabitants who will accompany the immigrants within the Dutch society.

Herman Divendal: ‘Why wait until someone is in possession of a residence permit? Life needs to go on.

Anja Wouters: ‘It can be a waste of energy, if someone needs to return.’

Herman Divendal: ‘You can’t expect people to stand still for a couple of years. We also initiated a buddy project for artists: a Dutch artist was linked to an asylum seeker / artist, all asylum seekers / artists could participate, with or without residence permit. It’s important to continue building up a CV, also for the people who need to return.’

Anja Wouters: ‘ The choice is based on money.’

Julius Wijffels: ‘I think it’s cruel to separate a group of people from society for such a long time. If we were really honest and humane we would reach out to this group of people. It’s inappropriate to use arguments as: there’s no money or it would be a waste of energy.’

Anja Wouters: ‘How on earth will these people integrate in this society? They’re traumatized because of the enormous length of the asylum procedure. A buddy can assist these people.

Hartem: ‘It’s a sort of temping agency of the Dutch society. I’m here for 13 years already and needed to find out a lot of things on my own. A buddy will come too late for me.’

Gryt Wielinga: ‘There are asylum seekers who were able to find their way within the society, others were all complete paralysed in anticipation of their residence permit.’

Hartem: ‘Everyone who comes here as a refugee should be able to get education. If a refugee needs to return he or she can dedicate the knowledge to the built up a strong economy in the native country. That’s no waste of energy, it can be a good investment in countries where a lot of refugees are coming from and they can contribute to improvements within these countries.

After this conversation Herman Divendal gave a presentation. Herman Divendal is coordinator of AIDA, the Netherlands, an artist organisation to support artists who are threatened in their artistic freedom because of the political unstable, dictatorial or dangerous situations that they are facing in their native country. AIDA supports refugees / artists who are living in the Netherlands by creating platforms and sharing their network, to give them the possibility to continue their artpractise. ‘Every refugee that claims to be an artist receives help. Time will tell if the artistic quality is good enough. We don’t judge the artistic quality on forehand. The artist finds him- or herself within a period of transformation and needs some time to adjust.’ Says Herman Divendal.

Divendal presents a project of Parisa Damandan, an artist living in Iran. AIDA supports her project, because she couldn’t do it on her own. Parisa Damandan started to collect glass negatives in Isfahan, where she lived. These glass negatives were thrown away, caused by the rise of digital photography. Damandan cared about the negatives because of their historical value. All together they give a good impression of the cultural developments from the twenties until the fifties. Aida organised a twin-exhibition, one in ‘Foam’, Amsterdam and one in Teheran.


After the earthquake in Bam (Iran) Parisa Damandan started do there the same thing. She excavated five photostudios and brought 30.0000 glass negatives in safety. This treasure represents the history of the inhabitants of Bam. AIDA offered the equipment to clean the material. Damandan is now able to repair the historical context of the destroyed city. A Dutch cineaste made a movie about the personal stories linked to the photographs. This movie is called ‘Voices of Bam’.

AIDA offers pragmatic assistance in order to create possibilities for artists to continue their artpractises, for asylum seekers living in the Netherlands and for foreign artists who are forced to work under difficult circumstances.